From vlad.alexander at xstandard.com Mon Nov 16 17:01:59 2009 From: vlad.alexander at xstandard.com (Vlad Alexander (XStandard)) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 17:01:59 -0800 Subject: [html4all] Article: Why do WYSIWYG editors hate HTML5? Message-ID: <0kl04x3mnmj0q4g.161120091701@dalmatian> Thought I'd share with the group some of the concerns we, as an authoring tool vendor, have with HTML5. I have outlined the issues in the following article: http://rebuildingtheweb.com/en/why-do-wysiwyg-editors-hate-html5/ Regards, -Vlad From laura.lee.carlson at gmail.com Tue Nov 17 04:45:05 2009 From: laura.lee.carlson at gmail.com (Laura Carlson) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 06:45:05 -0600 Subject: [html4all] Article: Why do WYSIWYG editors hate HTML5? In-Reply-To: <0kl04x3mnmj0q4g.161120091701@dalmatian> References: <0kl04x3mnmj0q4g.161120091701@dalmatian> Message-ID: <1c8dbcaa0911170445v336f67f9o9771c21603128520@mail.gmail.com> Hi Vlad, > Thought I'd share with the group some of the concerns we, as an authoring tool vendor, have with HTML5. I have outlined the issues in the following article: > > http://rebuildingtheweb.com/en/why-do-wysiwyg-editors-hate-html5/ The HTML Chairs have set in place a HTML WG process to make decisions (by submitting bugs, escalating bugs to issues, and then writing change proposals): http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/HTML5#head-b8f7f2d5391d0eade067cdacbb9592a9dcbf8b1c You may want to use that path for your concerns so they are officially tracked and considered. Best Regards, Laura -- Laura L. Carlson From laura.lee.carlson at gmail.com Tue Nov 17 04:46:57 2009 From: laura.lee.carlson at gmail.com (Laura Carlson) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 06:46:57 -0600 Subject: [html4all] Article: Why do WYSIWYG editors hate HTML5? In-Reply-To: <1c8dbcaa0911170445v336f67f9o9771c21603128520@mail.gmail.com> References: <0kl04x3mnmj0q4g.161120091701@dalmatian> <1c8dbcaa0911170445v336f67f9o9771c21603128520@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1c8dbcaa0911170446t5a2f82abu5379c17baf3f3b25@mail.gmail.com> > The HTML Chairs have set in place a HTML WG process to make decisions > (by submitting bugs, escalating bugs to issues, and then writing > change proposals): Correct URL: http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/HTML5#head-b8f7f2d5391d0eade067cdacbb9592a9dcbf8b1c Best Regards, Laura -- Laura L. Carlson From joshue.oconnor at cfit.ie Tue Nov 17 06:50:20 2009 From: joshue.oconnor at cfit.ie (Joshue O Connor) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:50:20 +0000 Subject: [html4all] Article: Why do WYSIWYG editors hate HTML5? In-Reply-To: <1c8dbcaa0911170445v336f67f9o9771c21603128520@mail.gmail.com> References: <0kl04x3mnmj0q4g.161120091701@dalmatian> <1c8dbcaa0911170445v336f67f9o9771c21603128520@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B02B82C.5070405@cfit.ie> Hi Vlad, There are some very interesting points raised in your blog post, especially around the areas of context and how that modifies how attribute and element content behaves. Some of this will however be handled by the user agent rather than the author and to some degree the author will have to be made aware about this context sensitivity before they use an authoring tool of any kind. [1] Ultimately, it would be hoped that technology will mediate some of the complexity of authoring well formed HTML 5. Not an enviable task - putting together an editor that will successfully do this - as HTML 5 is /so/ much larger than what has come before. Having said that large parts of the spec are for different audiences than those who will author content. Laura is right about the best way to escalate any issues. Good luck and let us know if we can help. Cheers Josh [1] http://rebuildingtheweb.com/en/why-do-wysiwyg-editors-hate-html5/ From vlad.alexander at xstandard.com Tue Nov 17 14:21:12 2009 From: vlad.alexander at xstandard.com (Vlad Alexander (XStandard)) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:21:12 -0800 Subject: [html4all] Article: Why do WYSIWYG editors hate HTML5? Message-ID: Thanks for the info Laura! The markup issues I have raised in the article are symptoms of the problem. The real problem is that the stakeholders in the future of Web technology are not working collaboratively together. This problem cannot be addressed via the W3C issue tracking system. Permitting these stakeholders to chime in on the public-html list is not real collaboration. Until all stakeholders have significant influence over the future direction of Web technology, we are going to keep repeating past mistakes. Regards, -Vlad -------- Original Message -------- From: Laura Carlson Date: 2009-11-17 4:45 AM > Hi Vlad, > >> Thought I'd share with the group some of the concerns we, as an authoring tool vendor, have with HTML5. I have outlined the issues in the following article: >> >> http://rebuildingtheweb.com/en/why-do-wysiwyg-editors-hate-html5/ > > The HTML Chairs have set in place a HTML WG process to make decisions > (by submitting bugs, escalating bugs to issues, and then writing > change proposals): > http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/HTML5#head-b8f7f2d5391d0eade067cdacbb9592a9dcbf8b1c > > You may want to use that path for your concerns so they are officially > tracked and considered. > > Best Regards, > Laura