From oedipus at hicom.net Thu Jul 10 10:55:10 2008 From: oedipus at hicom.net (Gregory J. Rosmaita) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 18:55:10 +0100 Subject: [html4all] HTML WG 2008-07-10 issue tracking telecon minutes In-Reply-To: <20080710171030.M39193@hicom.net> References: <20080710171030.M39193@hicom.net> Message-ID: <20080710173618.M52166@hicom.net> aloha! since there are an obscene number of lists to track when working on or investigating the HTML WG and the HTML5 draft, i thought i would forward this announcement because not everyone may be subscribed to public-html-wg-announce, which is the list to which agenda and minutes are posted http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/ i also wanted to point out a very cool new reference page on the HTML WG wiki, compiled by (who else?) laura carlson, listing all of the HTML WG emailing lists -- 10 in w3c.org space alone, by my count, but don't take my word for it, bookmark laura's excellent: http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/EmailLists and, to keep up-to-date with minutes from past meetings, bookmark laura's further invaluable contribution: http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/Minutes gregory ---------- Forwarded Message ----------- From: "Gregory J. Rosmaita" To: public-html-wg-announce at w3.org Sent: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 18:15:00 +0100 Subject: {minutes} HTML WG issue tracking telecon 2008-07-10 aloha, all! minutes from the 10 July 2008 HTML WG teleconference are available at: http://www.w3.org/2008/07/10-html-wg-minutes.html an IRC log is also available via: http://www.w3.org/2008/07/10-html-wg-irc as usual, please log any errors, omissions, corrections, clarifications, misattributions, and the like by replying-to this announcement on-list... the next HTML WG telecon will be held on 17 July 2007 at 1600h UTC; chris wilson will be chairing the 17 July 2007 meeting please remember that time is running out to vote on the "Web Forms Features" Formal Survey: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/wfreq/ the "Web Forms Features" survey is open for responses until July 10 at 23:59 Boston time (0359h UTC); results so far can be found at: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/wfreq/results also, there is a questionnaire named "Attendance and room sharing at the W3C TPAC in Mandelieu, France" located at: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/2008-tpac-room-sharing/ thanks to everyone who attended and contributed to the meeting, gregory. ------------------------------------------------------------ The more things are forbidden, the more popular they become. -- Mark Twain ------------------------------------------------------------ Gregory J. Rosmaita: oedipus at hicom.net Camera Obscura: http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/ Oedipus' Online Complex: http://my.opera.com/oedipus ------------------------------------------------------------ ------- End of Forwarded Message ------- ---------------------------------------------------------------- CONSERVATIVE, n. A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others. -- Ambrose Bierce, _The Devil's Dictionary_ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Gregory J. Rosmaita, oedipus at hicom.net Camera Obscura: http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/index.html ---------------------------------------------------------------- From P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk Thu Jul 10 11:02:28 2008 From: P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk (Philip TAYLOR (Ret'd)) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 19:02:28 +0100 Subject: [html4all] HTML WG 2008-07-10 issue tracking telecon minutes In-Reply-To: <20080710173618.M52166@hicom.net> References: <20080710171030.M39193@hicom.net> <20080710173618.M52166@hicom.net> Message-ID: <48764EB4.8030202@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Gregory J. Rosmaita wrote: > [...] listing all of the HTML WG emailing lists -- > 10 in w3c.org space alone, by my count, but don't take > my word for it OMG. /Divide et impera/ ? From rob at robburns.com Thu Jul 10 13:27:08 2008 From: rob at robburns.com (Robert J Burns) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 23:27:08 +0300 Subject: [html4all] HTML WG 2008-07-10 issue tracking telecon minutes In-Reply-To: <20080710173618.M52166@hicom.net> References: <20080710171030.M39193@hicom.net> <20080710173618.M52166@hicom.net> Message-ID: <6A5EEDB9-4AC2-4FAF-A40C-05EB9E799720@robburns.com> Great work Laura. That is a dizzying array of lists. It reminds me of a story the director of public works in Chicago told me about why Chicago has so many street lights. Everytime someone called to say they felt unsafe, they would simply add more street lights to the area. I get the feeling that it is the same with public input into HTML5. Anytime someone complains that there isn't enough responsiveness to input, the simply add another mechanism for input. Take care, Rob On Jul 10, 2008, at 8:55 PM, Gregory J. Rosmaita wrote: > aloha! > > since there are an obscene number of lists to track when working on or > investigating the HTML WG and the HTML5 draft, i thought i would > forward > this announcement because not everyone may be subscribed to > public-html-wg-announce, which is the list to which agenda and minutes > are posted > > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/ > > i also wanted to point out a very cool new reference page on the > HTML WG > wiki, compiled by (who else?) laura carlson, listing all of the HTML > WG > emailing lists -- 10 in w3c.org space alone, by my count, but don't > take > my word for it, bookmark laura's excellent: > > http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/EmailLists > > and, to keep up-to-date with minutes from past meetings, bookmark > laura's > further invaluable contribution: > > http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/Minutes > > gregory > > ---------- Forwarded Message ----------- > From: "Gregory J. Rosmaita" > To: public-html-wg-announce at w3.org > Sent: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 18:15:00 +0100 > Subject: {minutes} HTML WG issue tracking telecon 2008-07-10 > > aloha, all! > > minutes from the 10 July 2008 HTML WG teleconference are available at: > > http://www.w3.org/2008/07/10-html-wg-minutes.html > > an IRC log is also available via: > > http://www.w3.org/2008/07/10-html-wg-irc > > as usual, please log any errors, omissions, corrections, > clarifications, > misattributions, and the like by replying-to this announcement on- > list... > > the next HTML WG telecon will be held on 17 July 2007 at 1600h UTC; > chris wilson will be chairing the 17 July 2007 meeting > > please remember that time is running out to vote on the "Web Forms > Features" Formal Survey: > > http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/wfreq/ > > the "Web Forms Features" survey is open for responses until July 10 > at 23:59 Boston time (0359h UTC); results so far can be found at: > > http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/wfreq/results > > also, there is a questionnaire named "Attendance and room sharing at > the W3C TPAC in Mandelieu, France" located at: > > http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/2008-tpac-room-sharing/ > > thanks to everyone who attended and contributed to the meeting, > gregory. > ------------------------------------------------------------ > The more things are forbidden, the more popular they become. > -- Mark Twain > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Gregory J. Rosmaita: oedipus at hicom.net > Camera Obscura: http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/ > Oedipus' Online Complex: http://my.opera.com/oedipus > ------------------------------------------------------------ > ------- End of Forwarded Message ------- > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > CONSERVATIVE, n. A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, > as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them > with others. -- Ambrose Bierce, _The Devil's Dictionary_ > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Gregory J. Rosmaita, oedipus at hicom.net > Camera Obscura: http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/index.html > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > _______________________________________________ > List_HTML4all.org mailing list > http://www.html4all.org/wiki From oedipus at hicom.net Thu Jul 10 20:01:04 2008 From: oedipus at hicom.net (Gregory J. Rosmaita) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 04:01:04 +0100 Subject: [html4all] Forms Questionnaire: Answers, Objections, and Suggestions In-Reply-To: <1c8dbcaa0807101746k479ccecdld9a557013c394cf8@mail.gmail.com> References: <1c8dbcaa0807080505x4b5fc45eyc34346eabc190d68@mail.gmail.com> <1c8dbcaa0807101746k479ccecdld9a557013c394cf8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080711025256.M90050@hicom.net> aloha! for what it is worth, my response to the Forms Questionnaire is logged at: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2008Jul/0021.html and my comments document, referenced therein, lives at: http://esw.w3.org/topic/GregoryRosmaita/FormsFeedback2008-07 personally, i object to the formal survey's assumption that WF2 will not only be the basis for next generation HTML forms, but that the assumption is that WF2 will be folded into HTML5, rather than function as a forms module for HTML5 and its XML-serialization; also, a deep dive into Forms WG work, emailing lists and drafts has convinced me that XForms 1.2 Transitional SHOULD AT LEAST be given a hearing, for i believe (as i wrote in the esw wiki page cited above) that: The Forms WG's effort in drafting XForms 1.2, Transitional to explicitly accomodate syntactic expressions, and its extension of the XForms processing model, has lead to the adoption of as much of Web Forms 2 as possible in order to: (a) provide streamlined form-construction for web authors and authoring tool developers; and (b) to provide an on-ramp for web authors who will need to scale up to XForms so that their frontplane integrates seamlessly with their backplane. What is needed, therefore, is for Web Forms 2 to be as flexible about syntax-level changes as the Forms WG has been in producing XForms 1.2 Transitional, so that a single solution renders XForms and WF2 "extensions" of each other. This will lay the foundation for a new single architectural construct from the point of view of web authors. "Architectural alignment" between XForms and Web Forms, must not be reduced simply to the ability to satisfy a mutual set of use cases. True "architectural alignment" is only possible if the Forms WG and the HTML WG can cooperate as two working groups producing a single construct: next-generation web forms which the community can readily adapt, use, and deploy, through a common client-side processing model. just my (ever devaluing) 2 cents (american), gregory. ---------------------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies must expect new evils; for time is the great innovator. -- Sir Francis Bacon ---------------------------------------------------------- Gregory J. Rosmaita: oedipus at hicom.net Camera Obscura: http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/ Oedipus' Online Complex: http://my.opera.com/oedipus/ United Blind Advocates for Talking Signs: http://ubats.org ---------------------------------------------------------- From laura.lee.carlson at gmail.com Sun Jul 13 12:51:11 2008 From: laura.lee.carlson at gmail.com (Laura Carlson) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 14:51:11 -0500 Subject: [html4all] Interview: Charles McCathieNevile on Opera 9.5 and W3C Standards Message-ID: <1c8dbcaa0807131251q775bda78p45347a60b751996@mail.gmail.com> For your information: http://www.w3.org/QA/2008/07/interview_charles_mccathienevi.html Best Regards, Laura --- Laura Carlson From laura.lee.carlson at gmail.com Sun Jul 13 14:47:45 2008 From: laura.lee.carlson at gmail.com (Laura Carlson) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 16:47:45 -0500 Subject: [html4all] HTML WG 2008-07-10 issue tracking telecon minutes In-Reply-To: <20080710173618.M52166@hicom.net> References: <20080710171030.M39193@hicom.net> <20080710173618.M52166@hicom.net> Message-ID: <1c8dbcaa0807131447y739f5012mff79c44cfc2a5f92@mail.gmail.com> Gregory wrote: > since there are an obscene number of lists to track when working on or > investigating the HTML WG and the HTML5 draft, i thought i would forward > this announcement because not everyone may be subscribed to > public-html-wg-announce, which is the list to which agenda and minutes > are posted Also there are a number of HTMLWG surveys, so I started a Wiki page for them: http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/Surveys Most do not require authentication (exception the last one on forms). If I missed any please add them. Thanks, Laura -- Laura L. Carlson From laura.lee.carlson at gmail.com Tue Jul 15 10:04:59 2008 From: laura.lee.carlson at gmail.com (Laura Carlson) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 12:04:59 -0500 Subject: [html4all] HTML 5 W3C Bugzilla summary for 6/15 - 6/21 Message-ID: <1c8dbcaa0807151004i23b49f39s2ce366a98a5291b2@mail.gmail.com> For your info: HTML 5 W3C Bugzilla summary for 6/15 - 6/21 By Shawn Medero http://db79.com/2008/html-wg-bugzilla-6-15 Best Regards, Laura -- Laura L. Carlson From laura.lee.carlson at gmail.com Thu Jul 17 06:42:22 2008 From: laura.lee.carlson at gmail.com (Laura Carlson) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 08:42:22 -0500 Subject: [html4all] HTML 5 W3C Bugzilla summary for 7/13 Message-ID: <1c8dbcaa0807170642q48a82972iefb6573cffd00a97@mail.gmail.com> For your info: HTML 5 W3C Bugzilla summary for 7/13 By Shawn Medero http://shawn.medero.net/2008/html-wg-bugzilla-7-13 Best Regards, Laura -- Laura L. Carlson From laura.lee.carlson at gmail.com Sat Jul 19 04:52:27 2008 From: laura.lee.carlson at gmail.com (Laura Carlson) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 06:52:27 -0500 Subject: [html4all] Article: URI error-handling in HTML5, and documenting the (real) Web vs. reinventing it Message-ID: <1c8dbcaa0807190452j673537falc5a2b422d9d0afc9@mail.gmail.com> For your info: URI error-handling in HTML5, and documenting the (real) Web vs. reinventing it By Michael(tm) Smith http://sideshowbarker.net/2008/06/25/html5-uris/ Best Regards, Laura -- Laura L. Carlson From joshue.oconnor at cfit.ie Mon Jul 21 01:22:42 2008 From: joshue.oconnor at cfit.ie (Joshue O Connor) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 09:22:42 +0100 Subject: [html4all] closed issue-tracker issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48844752.2060809@cfit.ie> Hi Robert, > Does anyone following the teleconferences closely know why these two > issues have been closed: > > ? no summary attribute for tables[1] > ? distributed extensibility (i.e., namespaces)[2] > > I saw these in the issue-tracker system when I was preparing the > latest list of issues, but I didn't realize they were 'closed' status. I can't comment on the distributed extensibility issue but regarding the @summary issue (Issue 32) - the actions for it were completed so I guess thats why it is closed. However, I don't consider the issue /resolved/ and I said as much at the teleconf. We are still awaiting a response from the PF which Chris is actioned to follow up with this week and then we will work out where to go from there. HTH Josh From rob at robburns.com Mon Jul 21 05:26:52 2008 From: rob at robburns.com (Robert J Burns) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:26:52 +0300 Subject: [html4all] closed issue-tracker issues In-Reply-To: <48844752.2060809@cfit.ie> References: <48844752.2060809@cfit.ie> Message-ID: Hi Josh, That was a very old message I sent. I'm not sure if you've just received it, but I've seen such strange behavior from our list server in the past. Laura provided a great followup message that After that message we managed to get both issues re-opened. Though it seems pretty clear Ian plans to remain an obstacle to both improvements as long as he is given free reign. Take care, Rob [1]: [2]: On Jul 21, 2008, at 11:22 AM, Joshue O Connor wrote: > Hi Robert, >> Does anyone following the teleconferences closely know why these two >> issues have been closed: >> >> ? no summary attribute for tables[1] >> ? distributed extensibility (i.e., namespaces)[2] >> >> I saw these in the issue-tracker system when I was preparing the >> latest list of issues, but I didn't realize they were 'closed' >> status. > > I can't comment on the distributed extensibility issue but regarding > the > @summary issue (Issue 32) - the actions for it were completed so I > guess > thats why it is closed. However, I don't consider the issue /resolved/ > and I said as much at the teleconf. We are still awaiting a response > from the PF which Chris is actioned to follow up with this week and > then > we will work out where to go from there. > > HTH > > Josh > > > > _______________________________________________ > List_HTML4all.org mailing list > http://www.html4all.org/wiki From laura.lee.carlson at gmail.com Mon Jul 21 05:31:04 2008 From: laura.lee.carlson at gmail.com (Laura Carlson) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 07:31:04 -0500 Subject: [html4all] closed issue-tracker issues In-Reply-To: <48844752.2060809@cfit.ie> References: <48844752.2060809@cfit.ie> Message-ID: <1c8dbcaa0807210531y133770e7l977218f5049b5947@mail.gmail.com> Hi Josh, > regarding the > @summary issue (Issue 32) - the actions for it were completed so I guess > thats why it is closed. However, I don't consider the issue /resolved/ > and I said as much at the teleconf. We are still awaiting a response > from the PF which Chris is actioned to follow up with this week and then > we will work out where to go from there. Both Issue 32 and Action 66 regarding @summary are currently open. http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/32 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/66 At one time (in march) it was closed by the editor "Rejected by editor due to unclear problem description". But on June 12 it was reopened by Mike. Minutes read: "reopened issue 32 and will remain open until have a resolution that allows it to be closed; not resolved now -- needs more discussion". http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-html-wg-minutes.html#item01 On June 19 action item 66 was opened. http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-html-wg-minutes.html#item02 At last week's teleconf, Chris said that he would ask Al about the status of PF's reply to our request for advice. So the Action item is still open and on Chris for the time being. See the "Related notes" section in Action 66: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/66 Best Regards, Laura -- Laura L. Carlson From joshue.oconnor at cfit.ie Mon Jul 21 08:11:58 2008 From: joshue.oconnor at cfit.ie (Joshue O Connor) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:11:58 +0100 Subject: [html4all] closed issue-tracker issues In-Reply-To: References: <48844752.2060809@cfit.ie> Message-ID: <4884A73E.1030900@cfit.ie> Hi Robert, > That was a very old message I sent. I'm not sure if you've just > received it, but I've seen such strange behavior from our list server > in the past. Yes - I only just got it. Cheers Josh From laura.lee.carlson at gmail.com Tue Jul 29 10:18:03 2008 From: laura.lee.carlson at gmail.com (Laura Carlson) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 12:18:03 -0500 Subject: [html4all] Article: HTML 5 and summary: the feast of shrimp? Message-ID: <1c8dbcaa0807291018j10654f85kf76cb10f1a439fb@mail.gmail.com> HTML 5 and summary: the feast of shrimp? By Roberto Scano. http://blog.iwa.it/w3c/accessibilita/html-5-e-summary-la-festa-del-gambero/ The article is in Italian. A translation tool: http://www.google.com/language_tools Best Regards, Laura -- Laura L. Carlson From oedipus at hicom.net Tue Jul 29 14:05:54 2008 From: oedipus at hicom.net (Gregory J. Rosmaita) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 22:05:54 +0100 Subject: [html4all] GJR's Zakim & RRSAgent Cheat Sheet & Scribing Tips In-Reply-To: References: <1c8dbcaa0807180609n72b9a55arcdef199cc96c2098@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080729205441.M54306@hicom.net> the following has been of utility to many to whom i have pointed them; an earlier iteration of this "document" is archived at: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008AprJun/0114.html for ease of bookmarking... gregory. IRC Sessions to Real Readable Notes BEFORE THE MEETING COMMENCES: 1. invite Zakim and RRSAgent * /invite rrsagent * /invite Zakim (note: check the attendance list for the channel to ensure that Zakim and RRSAgent have been invited) 2. Set Meeting Info * rrsagent, set logs world-visible (for groups with open proceedings) * rrsagent, set logs member-visible (for member-confidential minutes) * meeting: [name] * chair: [name] * agenda: [URI] * -> Previous [URI] * scribe: [name] * ScribeNick: [screen-name] * present: [names] * regrets: [names] * rrsagent, pointer? [gives location of IRC log] * zakim, save agenda (after agenda entered) * zakim, Wrong_Name is Correct_Name DURING THE MEETING: * ACTION: ZakimName ActionText - DueDate * RESOLVED: [info] * RESOLUTION: [info] * zakim, Gregory_Rosmiata is Gregory_Rosmaita * zakim, mute me * zakim, unmute me * correction syntax: s/rosmiata/rosmaita * q+ (puts you in the speaker queue) * q- (remove yourself from the speaker queue) * q+ to ask ... * q+ to say ... * q? to ascertain who is on the queue * present+ [name] (to add late arrivals) * present- [PhoneCode] (to remove coded IDs) * regrets+ [name] for last minute regrets * rrsagent, pointer? (gives location of IRC log) * zakim, choose a victim (randomly assigns a task to a participant) * switching scribes: * i/Text_Where_Scribe_Changed/ScribeNick: IRC_name * trackbot, status? (shows the users trackbot knows about) * rrsagent, drop action # (how to drop a malformed action) AFTER THE MEETING ADJOURNS: 1. Creating Minutes: * rrsagent, create minutes (the following 5 commands are synonyms) * rrsagent, draft minutes * rrsagent, format minutes * rrsagent, generate minutes * rrsagent, make minutes * rrsagent, publish minutes DISMISSING ZAKIM AND RRSAGENT 1. zakim, please part (this will result in the output of attendees) NOTE: non-staff members who are acting as scribe MUST effect any changes or corrections BEFORE dismissing RRSAgent; staff can edit slash manipulate minutes by appending a comma and the word tools to the URI for the minutes - for example: http://www.w3.org/2007/06/06-pf-minutes.html,tools NOTE: the naming syntax for the automatically generated documents is: http://www.w3.org/YYYY/MM/DD-[IRC_Channel]-minutes http://www.w3.org/YYYY/MM/DD-[IRC_Channel]-irc 2. after dismissing zakim, issue an "RRSAgent, draft minutes" command to ensure that the attendees list is correctly populated -- use the + and minus syntax to add or delete attendees, regrets, etc. -- remember that you MUST issue an "RRSAgent, draft minutes" in order for the minutes to execute your instructions -- every time you do so, be sure to REFRESH the document in the browser instance in which you are reviewing the draft minutes 3. rrsagent, please part (VERY LAST STEP- logs actions and resolutions) 4. put text dump in email along with HTML and IRC log pointers =-=-= RESOURCES FOR SCRIBES AND PARTICIPANTS Zakim Bridge Guidebook: http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot.html RRSAgent IRC Bot Guidebook: http://www.w3.org/2002/03/RRSAgent Scribe's Quick Start Guide: http://dev.w3.org/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm